1321. The subjects of those reasonings were mainly three, which likewise followed in order. The first was, whether the statement ought to be taken literally that the apostles would sit on 12 thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel [Matt. 19:28, Luke 22:30], as many maintain. Those who take that to be the meaning were embroiled in that confusion, and at the same time they were afraid that heaven was falling to ruin, as they say,* being anxious lest [the apostles] be dislodged from their judgment seats. Many of the apostles, who were the mediums of those who take that statement literally and defend it, were also there, while some of the apostles were not. For when they are let back into the state of their bodily life, which happens when they are let back from the heaven of angels to the heaven of spirits, they are like that, and defend those words. For in bodily life they had believed no otherwise than that they would judge the 12 tribes of Israel. And because this is entirely contrary to the inward meaning of the words, they become very indignant, demanding that they be judges. Many other spirits who love such uproars and like to arouse the apostles stir them up against the Church, and against the inward meaning, and even more against the very inward meaning. * Perhaps referring to Matt. 24:35, and the same statement in Mark and Luke.