I was in an indeterminate state of mind, with spirits around me. It was the kind of state in which they cannot think about themselves, but are like a nothing in the universe, according to some people's notion of a "spirit." As for me, I could hardly tell whether I was in the body or outside the body, having no sensation of it because I was not allowed to reflect on it. So I felt myself to be as if without any body. My thoughts were being determined toward the universe, and thus more or less scattered, without being fixed on myself. Fixing [the thought] on themselves causes them to see themselves according to their self-image. In short, it was a state of mind different from the usual state. And there was nothing but conversation, for they did speak, and I spoke, but the speaking took place as if did not come from any particular person. It was like a voice in the universe. Nothing was apparent but a heavenly sky blue dotted with stars.