There are spirits from among those in bodily life who deny the existence of spirits, consequently of the spiritual truths of the Lord, so they refuse the faith for the reason that they are unable to see or understand anything relating to faith from material, physical, and bodily principles. Such people in the other life have the same negative idea. Since they suppose that they are earthly humans and thus do not know they are spirits, and even if they do, stick in that idea, I was prompted to tell them that this is quite impossible, and to demonstrate this to them I was given to say that it is like the case of one who wants to know what will is from the muscles that bring the will forth in actions. The natural sciences are likewise ineffective in regard to everything relating to faith.