449. Verse 17. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat upon them, signifies that then it was discovered that the reasonings of the interiors of their minds concerning faith alone were imaginary and visionary, and that they themselves were insane from them. "To see" signifies to discover their quality; by "horses" are signified the reasonings of the interiors of their minds concerning faith alone; in the present case, imaginary and visionary reasonings, because it is said, that he saw them "in vision." By "those sitting upon horses" are signified such as are intelligent from the Word understood, but here, such as are insane from imaginary and visionary things which are contrary to the Word. [2] Because the interiors of their minds appeared under such forms as signify imaginary and visionary reasonings concerning faith alone, a few of them, which I have heard from their own mouths, shall be made public; as these: "Was not faith alone, after the grievous fall of man, made the only means of salvation? How can we appear before God without that means? Is it not the only means? Are we not born in sins, and is not our nature entirely corrupted by the transgression of Adam? Can there be any other means of healing but faith alone? What can our works contribute towards this? Who can do any good work from himself; who can purify, forgive, justify, and save himself? Does not merit and self-righteousness lurk in every work that man does from himself? And if, perchance, we should do anything that was good, could we do all, and fulfil the law? Besides, if anyone sins against one commandment, he sins against all, because they cohere. Why did the Lord come into the world, and suffer so grievously on the cross, but to take away from us damnation and the curse of the law, to reconcile God the Father, and become merit and righteousness alone, which might be imputed to man through faith? Otherwise, what good could be answered by His coming? Since, then, Christ suffered for us, and fulfilled the law for us, and took away its right of condemnation, can evil then any longer condemn, and can good save us? Therefore we who have faith, are in the full liberty of thinking, willing, speaking, and doing whatever we please, provided we do no injury to our reputation, honor, and interest, nor incur the penalties of the civil law, which would be a disgrace and hurt to us." Some, who wander further north, said, "That good works, which are done for the sake of salvation, are hurtful, pernicious and cursed; among these, also, there were some presbyters. [3] These things are what I heard, but they mumbled and muttered many more, which I did not hear. They spoke, also, shamelessly with all license, and were lascivious, both in words and deeds, without fear for any wicked deed, except out of pretense, for the sake of appearing honest. Such are the interiors of the mind, and thence the exteriors of the body of those who make faith alone the all of religion. But all those things, which were uttered by them, fall to the ground, if the Lord Himself, the Savior, is immediately approached, and believed in, and good is done, each for the sake of salvation, and by man as from himself, with a belief, however, that it is from the Lord. Unless these things are done as by man, neither faith nor charity can be given at all; nor, consequently, can religion nor salvation.