331. [323] But it must be known that all things, and each now mentioned, are not material but spiritual, or are from a spiritual origin; and yet spirits know no otherwise than that they are material; the reason is, that when what is spiritual touches or tastes what is spiritual, it is altogether like when what is material touches or tastes what is material. Concerning this appearance I have often had a discussion with spirits, who believe that the things which they see and touch are material. I have shown them by various methods, and by various reasons even to the life, that nothing in the spiritual world is material, but that everything there is spiritual. I demonstrated it to them by the houses, which in a moment are formed, and in a moment are destroyed and dissipated; also by their garments, which in a moment are put on, and in a moment are changed; new garments are also given in a moment. In like manner I have demonstrated it from their dinners and repasts, showing that the tables upon which is the food, exist in a moment, and are afterwards dissipated in a moment; and that the spirits themselves can enter into the houses through the walls, and oftentimes not entering in through the doors. There was a certain individual known to me, with whom I conversed when his body which he had in the world was being buried, and I told him that he was now being buried, when he replied that he did not know what of him was being buried, because he had all things with him, a similar body as before, and other things similar, for he, like others, did not know otherwise than that he was still material, whereas he was spiritual. He was soon instructed that his material body, which he carried about with him in the world, and which then clothed his spiritual body, was being buried.