5. V. THE SPIRITUAL SENSE OF THE WORD AND ITS NATURAL SENSE. I have spoken at times with spirits who did not wish to know anything about the spiritual sense of the Word, saying that its natural sense is the only sense of the Word, and that this is holy because it is from God; and they asserted that if the spiritual sense were to be accepted, the Word in the letter would become nothing. There were many who insisted upon this, but they were answered from heaven that the Word without the spiritual sense within it would not be Divine; and because the spiritual sense is its soul, it is thence Divine, yea, living, for without it the letter would be as it were dead; the very holiness of the Word consists in this. The Word may thus be compared to the Divine Man who is the Lord, in whom there is not only the Divine natural, but also the Divine spiritual and the Divine celestial; it is on this account that the Lord calls Himself the Word. And the angels said that the very holiness of the Word is in the sense of its letter, and that this is more holy than the other senses, which are internal, because it is the complex and containant of the rest, and is like the body living from the soul. Thus the Word in the sense of the letter, or the natural, is in its fullness, and also in its power; and by means of it man is in conjunction with the heavens, which, without the sense of the letter, would be separated from man. Who does not know and acknowledge that the Word in its bosom is spiritual? But where the spiritual is stored up, has hitherto lain concealed. [2] But because the spirits who stood for the sense of the letter alone, were not willing to be convinced by these reasons, the angels brought forward innumerable passages from the natural sense which could never be comprehended without the spiritual sense. As in the Prophets, where mere names are heaped up; where many kinds of animals are mentioned such as lions, bears, oxen, bullocks, dogs, foxes, owls, ijim, dragons; as also mountains and forests, besides many other things which would have no meaning without the spiritual sense. What, for instance, should be understood by the dragon who is described as red, having seven heads, and upon the heads seven diadems, and who by his tail drew down the third part of the stars of heaven and who sought to devour the offspring which the woman was about to bring forth; and that two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman, that she might fly into the desert, where the dragon cast after her water as a river out of his mouth. Again, without the spiritual sense it could not be known what should be understood by the two beasts of the dragon: the one ascending out of the sea, like a leopard, with feet as of a bear, and a mouth as of a lion, and the other beast ascending from the earth, of which it is spoken in the Apocalypse (12 and 13). Again, what is there meant in the sixth chapter of the Apocalypse, by the horses which went forth when the Lamb opened the seals of the book: first a white horse, afterwards a red one, then a black, and finally a pale horse; besides all the other things in that book? Also what is meant in Zachariah by the four horns and the four artificers (Chapter 2); by the lampstand and the two olive trees near it (Chapter 4); by the four chariots going forth between two mountains to which were horses, red, black, white, and grizzled (Chapter 6)? Or, again, in Daniel viii., what is meant by the ram and the he-goat, and by their horns with which they fought each other; and by the four beasts ascending from the sea (Chap. 7), besides similar things elsewhere in great abundance? In order that they might still further be convinced, the angels quoted what the Lord said to His disciples, in Matthew (Chap. 24), about the consummation of the age and His coming, which could be understood by no one without the spiritual sense. [3] That the spiritual sense is in each and all of the things or the Word, was also confirmed by certain things said by the Lord which could not be comprehended unless they were understood spiritually, as that no one should call his father on earth, father, nor any one, teacher, or master, because one is their Father, Teacher, and Master (Matt. 13:7-10); also that they should not judge, lest they be judged (Matt. 7:1, 2); and that a husband and wife are not two, but one flesh (Matt. 19:5, 6), when yet in the natural sense they are not one flesh; neither is it forbidden to judge concerning a companion and neighbor as to his natural life, for this is of importance in society; but it is forbidden to judge of him as to his spiritual life, for this is known to the Lord alone. So too the Lord did not forbid calling a father, father, neither a teacher, teacher, nor a master, master, in the natural sense, but in the spiritual sense, in which there is only one Father, Teacher, and Master: so in other cases. [4] From these illustrations the spirits were convinced that there is a spiritual sense within the natural sense of the Word, and that still the very holiness of the Word is in the sense of its letter, because all the interior senses of the Word are in that in their fullness. Moreover it was confirmed that in the sense of the letter all things which teach the way to salvation, thus to life and faith, stand forth clearly, also that every doctrine of the church is to be drawn from the sense of the letter of the Word and confirmed thereby, and not by the pure spiritual sense; for conjunction with heaven, and through heaven with the Lord, is not given by this sense alone, but by the sense of the letter; and the Divine influx of the Lord through the Word is from firsts through ultimates.