253. Since those times, it is only rarely that any one has talked with the angels of heaven, but some have talked with spirits who are not in heaven. For man's interiors and exteriors are such that they are turned either towards the Lord as their common centre (n. 124), or towards self, that is, backwards from the Lord. Those that are turned towards the Lord are also turned towards heaven, but those that are turned towards self, are turned also towards the world, and it is with difficulty that these can he elevated. Yet the Lord does elevate them as much as possible, by a turning of the love; which is effected by means of truths from the Word.