2592. There was present with me a certain person* who was formerly among the more wise, and was thereby well known in the learned world. I conversed with him on various subjects, and as I knew that he had been a wise man, I spoke with him concerning wisdom, intelligence, order, the Word, and finally concerning the Lord. Concerning wisdom he said that there is no other wisdom than that which is of life, and that wisdom can be predicated of nothing else. Concerning intelligence he said that it was from wisdom. Concerning order he said that it is from the Supreme God, and that to live in that order is to be wise and intelligent. [2] As regards the Word, when I read to him something from the prophecies, he was very greatly delighted, especially from the fact that each of the names and each of the words signified interior things, wondering greatly that the learned of this day are not delighted with such a study. I plainly perceived that the interiors of his thought or mind had been opened, and at the same time that those of certain Christians who were present had been closed; for ill will against him prevailed with them, and also unbelief that the Word is of this nature. Nay, when I went on reading the Word he said that he could not be present, because he perceived it to be too holy for him to endure, so interiorly was he affected. The Christians on the other hand said aloud that they could be present; and this was because their interiors had been closed, and therefore the holy things did not affect them. [3] At length I talked with him about the Lord; that He was born a man, but was conceived of God; that He had put off the human and had put on the Divine; and that it is He who governs the universe. To this he made answer that he knew many things about the Lord, and had perceived in his own way that it could not have been done otherwise if the human race was to be saved. Meantime certain wicked Christians injected various difficulties, for which he did not care, saying that it was not surprising, because they had become imbued in the life of the body with unbecoming ideas respecting these things, and that until such ideas were dispersed they could not admit things confirmatory, as could those who are ignorant. This man was a Gentile. * Probably Cicero; see Heaven and Hell, n. 322. [REVISER.]