5150. And Joseph answered and said. That this signifies revelation from perception, from the celestial in the natural, is evident from the signification of "answering and saying," as being revelation from perception (of which above, see n. 5121); and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial in the natural (n. 5086, 5087, 5106). That here "Joseph" is the celestial in the natural, is because the subject here treated of is the natural. In regard to the celestial and the spiritual the case is this. The celestial itself and the spiritual itself which flow into heaven from the Divine of the Lord dwell principally in the interior rational; for there the forms are more perfect, and are accommodated to reception; nevertheless the celestial and spiritual from the Divine of the Lord flow into the exterior rational also, and likewise into the natural; and this both mediately and immediately-mediately through the interior rational, and immediately from the Lord's very Divine. That which flows in immediately disposes, and that which flows in mediately is disposed. This is the case in the exterior rational, and in the natural; and hence it is evident what is meant by the celestial in the natural. [2] The celestial is from the Divine good, and the spiritual is from the Divine truth, both of them being from the Lord; and when these are in the rational they are called the celestial and the spiritual in the rational; and when in the natural, the celestial and the spiritual in the natural. By the "rational" and the "natural" is meant the man himself, insofar as he is formed to receive the celestial and the spiritual; but by the "rational" is meant his internal, and by the "natural" his external. Through influx and according to the reception, a man is called celestial or spiritual-celestial if the Lord's Divine good is received in the will part, spiritual if it in received in the intellectual part.