5614. Surely we had now returned these two times. That this signifies that there would have been spiritual life both exterior and interior, is evident from the signification of "going," as being to live (of which above, n. 5605); and therefore "returning" is living therefrom, for they went thither to procure corn, and by "corn" is signified the good of truth from which is spiritual life; and from the signification of "these two times," which, as it relates to life, denotes life exterior and interior, for by the "produce" they got the first time was signified life that is exterior or in the natural, for the reason that they were without an intermediate (as explained in the preceding chapter); while by the "corn" they get this time is signified interior life, because they were now with Benjamin, who is the intermediate, as explained in this and in the following chapter. Hence it is that by "surely we had now returned these two times," is signified spiritual life both exterior and interior. [2] That this is the signification cannot but seem strange, especially to one who knows nothing about what is spiritual; for it seems as if "returning these two times" has nothing in common with the spiritual life that is signified; but still this is the internal sense of the words. If you will believe it, the interior thought itself of the man who is in good apprehends this, because this thought is in the internal sense, although while in the body the man is deeply ignorant of it; for unknown to him the internal sense, that is, the spiritual sense, which is of the interior thought, falls into material and sensuous ideas that partake of time and space and of such things as are in the world, and therefore it does not appear that his interior thought is of such a nature; for his interior thought is like that of the angels, his spirit being in company with them. [3] That the thought of the man who is in good is according to the internal sense, may be seen from the fact that when after death he comes into heaven, he at once without any information is in the internal sense, and this could not be unless as to his interior thought he had been in this sense while in the world. The reason of his being in this internal sense is that there is a correspondence between spiritual and natural things so complete that there is not the smallest thing that has not its correspondence; and therefore because the interior or rational mind of the man who is in good is in the spiritual world, and his exterior or natural mind in the natural world, it must needs be that both minds think (the interior mind spiritually, and the exterior naturally), and that the spiritual falls into the natural, and they act as a one by correspondence. [4] That man's interior mind, the ideas of thought of which are called intellectual and are said to be immaterial, does not think from the words of any language, nor consequently from natural forms, can be seen by him who is able to reflect on these things, for he can think in a moment what he can scarcely utter in an hour, and he does so by universals which comprise in them very many particulars. These ideas of thought are spiritual, and when the Word is being read are no other than as the internal sense is; although the man does not know this, because as before said these spiritual ideas, by influx into what is natural, present natural ideas, so that the spiritual ideas do not appear; insomuch that unless he has been instructed the man believes that there is no spiritual unless it is like the natural, and even that he does not think otherwise in spirit than as he speaks in the body. In such a manner does the natural cast a shade over the spiritual.