3465. Once on awakening after sleep I heard a subtle sound as of a peculiar kind of turning or twisting above my left ear, which I can hardly find words to describe. Again, on awakening at another time, I heard the sound of a rougher kind of twisting and rending, and it was perceived that it was from those who were of similar quality with the preacher, as were also those who were thus dreadfully torn, the reason of which [punishment] was, that they had deceitfully charged upon others misdeeds similar to their own; for it was habitual for him to say that all others, however innocent, were like himself, as he was desirous by means of phantasy which was perceived, of conjoining others with himself, in order that the innocent might undergo the rending.* [It was also perceived] that he seemed to believe that he had actually substituted the innocent; but I maintained, on the other hand, that it was impossible, although I still had a sort of belief that the fact was so, as the renders labored hard to hold him, while he seemed several times to escape, and the innocent to be substituted. Wherefore angelic spirits were [seen to be] around my head, who directed the punishment, and then there was no sign of his escaping, for it was perceived that they held him, and when he seemed to escape that he was still brought back. The former illusion was owing to his being dealt with by renders of a duller genius, who did not duly perceive interior things. * Of the nature of the punishment termed discerptio, or rending, see AC 829, 957, 959.