5913. At length, when [his] persuasive [ardor] cooled down, I spoke to him about persuasion and persuasive faith, saying that it chokes the understanding of others, and that it also exists with evil men who have confirmed themselves in falsities; as, for example, who have confirmed themselves against the Divine in favor of nature. [Something] was said respecting the persuasion of such [ones], and respecting Nephilim; also, that persuasion does not exist with those who are in a genuine affection of truth, but that, in place of it, there is intellectual light, along with its reasons and confirmations, which are then simultaneously presented. It is different with those who are in persuasion; for, if their reasonings and confirmations were to go forth they would perish, for they are all opposed to heaven. Luther said that it is not allowed him to be in his persuasive, and that as often as he comes into it he is tormented, and therefore he desists; also, that when he apprehends that his persuasive may insinuate itself, he flees into a chamber where it is dispersed, but that still it is allowed him to confirm his own [doctrine] by reasonings. It was said that the reason this is so, is in order that those who come from the world, and are in a similar doctrine, may come to those who are in the like, and this according to the order of heaven.