897. CONCERNING INTERIOR PERCEPTION AND PERSUASION Souls and spirits can never perceive that from the Lord man can perceive and be persuaded what he ought to think, speak and do; for they suppose that no other perceptions can be given than those which spring from themselves, or from what is their own. Thus they were never willing to acknowledge that a perception like this is possible, not even those who in the life of the body and in the life afterwards had been quite acute and clever, and who seemed to themselves to be able to penetrate into and understand each and all things. Whenever there was conversation concerning this perception and persuasion, they could conceive no otherwise than that if their proprium or self were absent, they would then no longer exist, but it would be another who thought, spoke and acted, and one would thus be as an organ in which there is no life, such as a wooden machine or the like. For they cannot conceive that any other life is possible than that which is proprial, and they suppose that if this were taken away they would be either entirely without life, or, as a certain one is now saying, so stupid that he would never be a soul or spirit.