I spoke with spirits about fantasies, and in fact with those who supposed that they were entirely bodied people, even though they knew they were spirits-among other things, [the fantasy] that they seemed to themselves to be trying the lowest functions of the body. So we spoke about fantasies, and I was inspired to tell one of them that from that he could know what fantasy is, and that people seem to live by their own power, and yet this is a fantasy, and that it is no wonder that such fantasies regarding the body and physical things exist, as long as that fantasy that they live by themselves or by their own power remains.