5251. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph. That this signifies the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural, is evident from the signification of "saying" in the historicals of the Word, as being to perceive (as often shown above); and from the representation of Pharaoh, as being the natural (see n. 5079, 5080, 5095, 5160); and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial of the spiritual (n. 4286, 4592, 4594, 4963, 5086, 5087, 5106, 5249). That the perception of the celestial of the spiritual from the natural is signified, is because the Lord is represented both by Joseph and by Pharaoh-by Joseph as to the celestial of the spiritual, and by Pharaoh as to the natural. Hence by "Pharaoh said unto Joseph" is signified the Lord's perception from the celestial of the spiritual in the natural. But what and of what quality this perception is, cannot be told so as to be apprehended, unless there has first been formed some idea of spiritual perception, and of the celestial of the spiritual, and also of the manner in which the natural is distinct from the spiritual. On these subjects some things have indeed been said already, which should now be recalled.