3503. I conversed with these persons on various topics, as for instance that in the other life no respect is paid to persons; that the rich are saved equally with the poor; that men may become rich, and engage in business like the most active of that class, and still be saved, for everyone is regarded according to his end and love; that there are those of their rich men who did business in like manner, that yet enjoy eternal life; and that the greater part of the poor are worse than they, and are rejected. But they urged, on the other hand, that if they are saved, they must renounce their business and give their wealth to the poor, which would render them miserable. But it was given to reply, that the fact was not so; and that their rich men who were good and were saved, felt entirely otherwise. They know too the grounds on which this conceit is founded, but they explain them according to an interior and truer sense. Thus, for example, they who in saying the Lord's prayer, which I recited to them, pray that the Lord would not lead them into temptation, such persons, if truly Christians, are at once aware that the Lord leads no one into temptation, wherefore they do not abide in the letter, but in the interior sense of the letter. So also in regard to what is said about the rich young man's being commanded to sell all his goods and take up the cross, this too is to be understood otherwise in the interior sense. But the persons in question give utterance to such sentiments with their lips, because they are addicted to filty lucre, and wish to live their own nefarious life. They said, moreover, that unless the acquisition of riches was allowed, they would have no means of defending their little commonwealth against their powerful hostile neighbors. But it was shown to them that scarcely anyone acts from such a principle [of patriotism], but that it was a mere argumentative fetch; and that they might besides abound in wealth without desiring to deprive others of what belonged to them.