4772. There then appeared many from this place - that is, their spirits - who spoke with the angels, and were instructed through heaven from the Lord, concerning such things as belong to heavenly doctrine; and they said that they would communicate these to their people. Afterwards came hypocrites, and some from hell, and bore in contrary things, to which, however, the former spirits did not attend, but yet heard, in order that they might know contrary things, and so be the better illustrated in truths; for where there is enlightenment, there also there must be an idea of the contraries. After that, the angels spoke together concerning the fact, that those who are within the Church are of a depraved disposition and nature, namely, that they wish to have an invisible God that does not fall into the thought, or concerning whom [no] idea could be formed, and thus with whom they cannot be conjoined by sensual thoughts and affections. Such are they who are within the Church; wherefore, they do not acknowledge the Lord as God, because He was a man, when yet they who were in the most ancient times, and were wise above others - as, for instance, those who were before Abraham, Abraham himself, and those who were after him - worshipped Jehovah under a human form; and when He appeared under that form, they called him Jehovah, and Creator of the universe. Similarly do the wisest of the angels: they worship God under a human form and the Lord also appears to them under that form. They say an invisible Creator is an incomprehensible being, to whom they cannot be conjoined. This is inscribed, from heaven on the nature of the nations outside of Europe, and, also, of some within Europe; wherefore, they wish to worship God under some form. When these hear that the Lord was seen by men in the world, thus when they hear about the Lord, they then flock together, believe, and eagerly embrace the doctrine concerning Him, saying that if God, He must have appeared to men, and under no other shape than the human. This is implanted in men's nature, because it is from heaven; but this is eradicated, as it were, from the hearts of Christians, except from the hearts of some of the simple ones.