4832. CONCERNING AN EARTH OUTSIDE OF THE SOLAR WORLD AMONG THE LESSER EARTHS, AND CONCERNING THE LORD THERE. (See five or six pages below: CONTINUATION CONCERNING THE DIVINE HUMAN OF THE LORD [4844-4847.]) (I was elevated from a place where I was, for many hours, about ten, continuously; and it was granted me to observe the elevation and removal from the former place, by steps, and until at length they did not appear. I was in a wakeful state, and, throughout that time, spoke about that matter with the spirits who were near me. A certain one from this earth was adjoined to me, who, when alive, had been a celebrated preacher, and also a very pathetic writer. The spirits, from an idea of him derived from such things as I have heard and clearly perceived about him, supposed him to be a Christian in heart even beyond others; for, in the world, one is judged from his preachings and writings and not from his life, and if from the life, they excuse blemishes when they are in such an idea; for the idea, or notion, about anyone, draws all things to its side.) (When, at last, after ten hours, I was elevated, and perceived that I was outside the world of our sun, I also perceived, from the region of the elevation, that I was in a starry world towards the meridional region:) (then there spoke with me certain [spirits] from some earth there. They said that at times there come certain ones to them from other parts. The way was also pointed out by which they came; it was to the left; and I observed that they were from our earth. They said about those, that certain of the visitors disturb them by saying that they believe in three persons and one God, and, also, that they have the idea of three Gods although they say one with the mouth; for, when they represent persons by means of the ideas of thought, as happens in the other life, there appear three persons, like men, and then they make these, by agreement, to be like one, by means of something appearing, as it were, continuous, and say that the three are thus one. And the three, thus united, they call one God, but not one Divine; from which things [those spirits] perceive what sort of idea, concerning the one God, those have who are from our earth. The preacher who was with me (Scriverius), when he also was in the idea of such a thought, represented three Gods as one in a similar manner; but when he was not in the idea of thought, but only in speech, such as he had been in, in the world, he then said that God is invisible; and, when he said this, he thought of the Father alone, and not of the Lord, and then no other idea resulted from thence, than, as it were, an invisible universe, and thus the quality of nature in her first principles. He was also then examined as to whether he has believed in this way; and it was found that such has been his interior faith, thus, that, inwardly, God has been to him the inmost of nature, but outwardly only names, to wit, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was then also found, that, inwardly in himself, he has made nature God, and that still he has had concerning the Holy Spirit the idea of an angel, and concerning it the idea of a visible God, for the reason, as was discovered, that, in the world, he has so often thought, concerning himself, that he spoke from the Holy Spirit; and when [these notions] were examined as to interiors from the idea, it was seen that he understood himself rather than any angel, because he had inwardly believed that he spoke from himself and had life in himself, not [life] inflowing from the Lord.) The spirits of that earth said that spirits of such a sort come to them, and disturb them as regards their thought and faith (concerning God, whom they know and perceive to be a man, and this not only from interior perception but also from the fact that He always appears to them as a man; and that they now acknowledge Him as Creator of the universe, which also they clearly know; and that they cannot at all perceive God otherwise than in a human form; and, if they should think according to the opinion of their guests, namely, of an invisible God, that they could think altogether nothing about God. They complained of those who thus disturb them, and prayed to the Lord for succor, which they also know they shall receive. It was granted me to tell them that the men of our earth are such, because their thought is material; and that, yet, they know that the ancients in this earth worshipped God in like manner under a human form, and called Him Jehovah, the Creator of the universe, for instance, Abraham, Gideon, Joshua, and several others; further, that the Lord Himself taught them that there is but one God, and that Himself was that God; that He was one with the Father; that the Father was in Him and He in the Father; and that the Holy Spirit, which is called the Spirit of Truth, because it is the Divine Truth proceeding from the Lord, does not speak from itself, but from the Lord Himself; and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only names whereby, in the Word, is expressed the Divine Itself, the Divine Human and the Divine Proceeding; and that this was so said, for the reason that they might acknowledge the Lord as the only God; in a word, the ideas of the spirits of our earth are material, and disturb the ideas of spirits from that earth.)* (It was afterwards granted me to speak with spirits from that earth. They related, that, when leave is given them, they appear to men of their own earth, and walk amongst them, and speak with them as men, which happens by their being let into the thought that they are still men in the earth, and the interior sight of the inhabitants being opened; and they said that the inhabitants do not know other than that they are men, and that they then first know them [not] to be men, when they are suddenly removed from their eyes, and disappear. It was similar in this earth, in ancient times, for instance, that angels appeared to Abraham, and also to Lot, also to all the inhabitants of Sodom at that time, and likewise to others in a similar manner, who, at the beginning, knew no other than that they were men; as, also, he who appeared to Manoah and his wife, and also to Joshua. (Let these things be cited from the Word.) The Preacher who was with me was wholly in the negative as to other earths than our earth existing, because he had contended against others, that this could not be, because the Lord was born here. Because he was in such a negative opinion, he was brought into a state similar to that in which the spirits of that earth are when they appear to the inhabitants, and so was let go into that very earth, that he might not only see the earth but also speak with the inhabitants there. When this was done, a communication of him with me was granted thence, so that I might then, in like manner, see the inhabitants, and also, in part, some of the things on that earth.) Thus it was granted me to see, that, in that earth, were four races of men (who were successively seen, and distinguished. He first spoke [with] those who were clothed; afterwards, with those there who were naked; then, with those who appear naked, but still as if with an inflamed body; and, again, with those who had a black body.) (((When he was with those who were clothed, there appeared a woman with quite a beautiful face, with becoming dress, and a tunic hanging tastefully on her back - the arms, also, were covered by the same garment. Her head was crowned with a chaplet, entwined in the form of a garland which was also adorned with beautiful flowers. He was exceedingly delighted at the sight of that virgin, and spoke with her, and also took hold of her hand; but, inasmuch as she was then aware that he was a spirit not from her earth because dressed differently, she snatched herself away from him. Then, at the right, appeared to him many others of the female sex, who fed sheep and lambs, which they then conducted to their drinking-place, which they had made by leading a little channel from some lake. These were similarly dressed, having in their hands shepherds' crooks, by means of which they led the sheep and lambs to their drink. They said that they [the sheep] go to that place which they indicate with their crooks. The sheep seen were large, with broad and long fleecy tails. The people's faces, also, were seen by me at closer quarters: they were full and fair. But the men are, as to the face, of a flesh-color, as in our earth; but the lower part of the face, instead of having a beard, was black, and the nose more inclining to snow-white than [to flesh-color]. Then, also, their habitations were seen: they were poor houses))), (rather huts than houses. . . They were rounded above, and extended lengthwise, having a door on both sides, and within, on both sides, they were divided into chambers, 5, 6, 7, according to the number of their family. They said that these are constructed from the soil there, and also from thick grassy sods, and the windows of grassy fibers interwoven, formed so that the light may be able to pass through, thus interwoven in various ways; also, that they could be opened and closed.) [There are] huts.** (((Afterwards the same preacher was brought farther; which, however, happened against his will, because he was delighted with that virgin, as appeared from the fact that somewhat of a shadow from him still remained in that place. He then came to those who were naked. They were there seen two and two, or in pairs, walking about. The pairs were husband and wife. None were seen who were not associated in twos.))) (They were girt about the loins with a covering; also with some covering [around the head]. There appeared there houses, or huts, of similar structure; and their fields also appeared, which were a plain of snowy-white: they said that there are grains there, which they eat and prepare in various ways. It was perceived that [they are prepared] similarly to the grain amongst the Chinese; and that such seeds are to them for bread: this they showed, and it was small, like square bits of bread. It was shown, besides, that they had herbs and flowers of various kind. Then also trees and shrubs, whereon were berries from which they prepared wine. Also, large fruits were seen, which were like pomegranates.) ((That they were thus distinct, namely, the clothed from the naked, was because they are of wholly different genius; for they who are clothed were of such a genius as the spiritual [angels] in heaven, and those who were naked, such as the celestial [angels] in heaven, concerning whom see places cited, no. [?]. When the preacher was with the naked, he was then brought into the state in which he was in the world; and, then, he wished to teach them. It was asked what)) (he wished to say. He said that he wished to preach the Lord crucified. But they said that they know of no such thing, and that neither did they wish to hear of such a thing, because they only knew a living Lord. They said that he also wished to teach about the living Lord. They also said, that, when he spoke, his speech was of such a nature that they discerned that he speaks for the sake of reputation and profit, inasmuch as there was nothing heavenly in the speech, but only earthly, which was harsh; and thus, that he could not teach them; for they do not attend to words in so far as they are from the mouth, but in so far as they are from the heart, in which aspect there was nothing angelic [in what he said]. Wherefore, he was silent; for, whilst alive in the world, he had been exceedingly pathetic, so that he was able to excite his hearers to piety; but that pathetic power was acquired by art, and from love of the world, as the inhabitants there discerned. Spirits from that earth, by whose means they perceived such things, were then with them; for spirits do not regard externals, but only internals in externals. They called his speech materialistic. See below.) (Afterwards he came to those who had an inflamed body, who so appeared from lobes of the world and luxury in living. These were naked also; but he at once proceeded to the last ones, who were black, some of them being clothed and some naked.) (I was instructed by the inhabitants of that earth, that their sun appears to them of the size of a fourth part of our sun, and that, in appearance, it goes around their earth; also, is of a flame-color, like our sun - which sun, nevertheless, to our eyes is a star. It was also observed that their earth was about 500 miles [German] in circumference, and that their year was of 200 days, and their day of fifteen hours compared with the hours of our time, which their spirits could know by a sort of spiritual sight respecting the duration of times and extension of spaces. This happens in a spiritual manner, not capable of being expressed by words which belong to the material form; for the words of the speech of our earth are forms of material things, wherefrom spiritual ideas are indeed arrived at, but which are, all the while, founded on material things; from which things if material conceptions be abstracted, the idea perishes. This is the case, because the inhabitants of our earth relate to the external senses.) (I spoke with them concerning the inhabitants of our earth, that, being of such a character [i. e. relating to the external senses], they are unable to conceive that man can live after death, and then appear as a man, as to the face, body, arms, feet and the rest; still less that they can then appear clothed with garments, and, still less again, that they have mansions and habitations; and this solely for the reason that they think exteriorly, and only from sensuals, which are of the body; consequently they cannot be withdrawn from material things; for which reason they cannot form to themselves, concerning the soul, any idea of a man, but either an idea of wind, or another of no form; and, inasmuch as they thus have almost no idea concerning the soul, and yet, from the doctrine of the Church, they know that they are to live after death, therefore they believe they shall not rise again until a certain last judgment, and then with the body. Some believe that the soul is then conjoined to that body; some that in the interval [between death and then] man has no life, and that the soul, which belongs to life, shall then be again infused. They are permitted to believe this, because they believe that nothing lives save the body itself; wherefore, unless that is said to rise, they would wholly reject the doctrine of the resurrection. Still, this idea of the resurrection has this accompanying utility, that they believe in a life after death when they lie sick in bed and mundane and corporeal things have less weight with them. At that moment, those who have lived well uniformly think no otherwise than that they shall live immediately after death. Uninfluenced by the doctrinal concerning the last judgment, they then also speak about heaven with the hope of a life there [immediately after death]. ((Those who were naked and walked about two and two, said that they perceive, at once, whether there is conjugial union between two married partners, as was also shown by means of a spiritual idea, which was of such a nature that there appears a likeness as to interiors of every sort. This [likeness] is formed by the conjunction of truth and good, and thence there is an appearance as one; for, from that conjunction, the conjugial union exists between two; and it was also perceived that similar faith and similar charity, or similar truth and good, conjoined, effect this. It was said, also, that there is no conjugial union at all if there is one husband and two or more wives and that they perceived this by that spiritual idea.)) (Infants are also seen there; and it was said that neighbors come together from their habitations especially on account of the infants; so that they may be in company with the infants of neighbors, under the eyes and authority of the parents.) I spoke with the spirits of that earth concerning the Lord, why He put on the human - just as has been written on a separate page; and they said, with affirmation, that [I had written] correctly.*** * At this place there occurs, in the original MS., the marginal note, "See what is said concerning the Lord, below, where the paper is folded" directing attention, no doubt, to the numbers mentioned in the heading to the present article, viz., 4844-4847. ** After no. 5248 there is a diagram of these huts. *** The Latin Edition, here, incorporates in the text the following parenthesis: "(Let those things be added which are written, from heaven, below - a few pages on - concerning the Divine Human of the Lord [No. 4844].)" These things, therefore, now follow.