5892. CONRAD RIBBING. He began to counsel the wicked, it being unknown who he was: wherefore, he was let into his nature; still, however, in such wise that he was, at the same time, similar in externals to what he was when he had given such counsels in the world, and when he spoke, in the world, from an interior discernment of a matter, - as he was accustomed to do, owing to his being continually in seclusion at home, because of his inability to seek company elsewhere, on account of his feet; and owing to his being engaged, at the same time, in such business transactions as required him to think deeply; and also owing to his being puffed up by interior love of self and by cunning in schemes. He then began to contrive artifices roundabout, with interior cunning, by means of which he allured very many, whom he posted for destroying the good whom the Lord protected; and it was marvelous that [I was] speaking with him, at the same time, respecting various things, which he also clearly apprehended; and, since he persisted, [and] could not be dragged away by any warning or fear of hell, he was, therefore, grievously punished several times. He said that he wished to desist, but that he was not able. He was told that that arises from the fact that he had no fear of the Divine, nor did he think of Him. After this, he desired to go into hell, in order to see what it was like; wherefore, it was permitted him to go wherever he wished. He went far away into the west beside the north, to the profoundly wicked. He was asked to stay there, but was not willing, because they were crafty. He discerned this, and, therefore, went to a place farther off in the same direction, and stopped there. They were evil there, but not so wicked as those who were at the front.