85. That no other than the above described are meant by the "he-goats," has been manifested to me by experience in the spiritual world. In that world there appear all things that are in the natural world, such as houses and palaces, paradises and gardens, with trees of every kind; likewise fields and fallow lands, as also plains and green pastures, and also herds and flocks; all resembling those upon our earth; nor is there any other difference, than that in the natural world they are from a natural origin, but in the spiritual world from a spiritual origin. There I have often seen sheep and he-goats, also combats between them, like that described in Daniel (chap. 8) I have seen he-goats with horns bent forwards and backwards. and rushing with fury upon the sheep; I have seen some he-goats with two, and others with four horns, with which they vehemently struck at the sheep; and when I looked to discover what this meant, I saw some persons disputing together about faith conjoined with charity, and faith separated from charity; from whence it plainly appeared, that the present justifying faith, which considered in itself is a faith disjoined from charity, is "the he-goat," and that faith conjoined with charity is "the sheep."