59. All who come from earth into the spiritual world are kept to begin with in the faith held and the religion practised in their native land. This happens to the Roman Catholics too; so they always have some representative Pope set over them, whom they venerate with similar ritual to that observed in the world. It is not often that anyone who was Pope in the world plays the role of Pope. However, the man who was Pope at Rome twenty years ago* was set over them, because he cherished in his heart the notion that the Word is more holy than is generally believed, and that the Lord is to be worshipped. But he abdicated after carrying out the duties of Pope for a number of years, and took himself off to join the Reformed Christians; he is still among them and enjoys a blessed life. I was allowed to talk with him, and he said that he venerates the Lord alone, because He is God and has power over heaven and earth. He said that calling on the saints was nonsense, and so were their Masses. He said that in the world he had intended to reform the church, but had been unable to do so for reasons he gave. I saw him, when on the day of the Last Judgment the great northern city inhabited by the Roman Catholics was destroyed, carried away in a sedan chair and taken to a safe place. The fate of his successor was quite different. * Probably Pope Clement XII (1730-1740).