2542. Therefore it has also been ordained by the Lord from eternity that there should be such an interaction and communion, so that people arriving at old age would not know they lived in the body, and putting off the body would transmigrate into heaven immediately. For when such people advance into old age, they no longer reflect on their body when speaking with those in heaven, as also happened to me. I sometimes forgot I was in a body, having no thought on bodily matters because of being in conversation with spirits. Today I saw by a spiritual mental image that the body is nothing, and that if it were cast off there would be no difference between life in the body and after the shedding of the body.