1442. Moreover, I* spoke to them about birds and lambs, but they were unwilling to hear about such things because they are earthly. When they were told, however, that lambs signify innocences, and that they who mention lambs as signifying such things think not of the lambs but of innocences, these spirits declared that they did not know what innocence is. When asked whether they were serious [alfwarsamheter], this also they were unwilling to hear, saying they did not know what they were, but they did know what politeness [artighet] is and they sought to be such. This agrees with the interior sense. Those who do not ascend above such cognitions, do not know what innocence is, save only the word, and some of them perhaps confuse it with infancy and its ignorance, supposing that those who are endowed with great intellect cannot be innocent. Therefore, the interior sense, that is, the mere cognition of things that are in heaven, does not apprehend things interior, still less inmost, such as innocence. But to be polite [artige], that is, to be pleased with the cognition of things and to glory in them is agreeable to such spirits. * Reading sum for sunt. This is in agreement with a parallel passage in AC 7073.