4743. There came one to me from those in the universe. He was a short, gross man, with a round felt hat. It was said by the angels that he was thence, and that they are of the most obstinate character, but, still, such that they are alternately in hell and in a world of brightness. They were compared to marshflies that fly upwards, in troops, and afterwards are in the marsh. It was said that they have no knowledge of any God; but that they call the light, which they see when they are above, God, and the darkness, when below, the devil thus that they acknowledge truth as God, and the false as the devil - as also he (Charles XII) did. Afterwards, there came a certain one, the same I have mentioned, with a bowl of liquid in his hand, and threw the liquid towards me. It was immediately dissipated. They said, that, in a certain place, they drink such a liquid, which they could not designate; and that they throw it at spirits, when they are in their obstinacy and stubbornness: if, then, those spirits receive it, that is a sign that they should not desist from [their purpose]; but, if they do not receive, that is a sign that they should desist. Consequently, that they thus explore contumacies there.