676. [A CONVERSATION] WITH A CERTAIN FAMOUS PHILOSOPHER CONCERNING CERTAIN MATTERS OF PHILOSOPHY A certain philosopher who died a few years ago spoke with me. I disclosed to him what is to be understood respecting certain things in philosophical subjects: as concerning forms, of what quality they are, one within the other; and that one cannot enter into that which is more interior, except by the dissolution, or as it were the death, of the exterior; thus there is an ascent from one degree to another; also that nature has such degrees everywhere, so there are degrees of the life of the body and of the organs of life, and many things. Further, that there is not anything that does not consist of variations of form, and that the more interior forms can be varied indefinitely more than the exterior forms, and that there are many variations in the various changes of state. I also disclosed that the forms of the forces and the forms of the substances in the purer [degrees] signify ideas, besides other similar things. Because that philosopher was in the other life, where they are more susceptible of understanding such things, he confirmed each single thing, and vowed that the world should be willing to acknowledge such things rather than stick in terms and disputation about words, for these withdraw the mind entirely from the understanding of these things, as when a person speaking sticks in the words, not in the sense of the words; thereby men are cast down into the dust, so that they cannot be raised up out of it. There were still other things [which we discussed]. 1748, Feb. 7.